from CCTV

achmed the dead terrorist, funny. a little late but i just today read this topic. "g"

Off topic but hello G

and I guess it would be Ahmed

Dieselrat,

I already made my decision after careful discussioin with Shu.

One of my customers extended and offer for a permanent job as a Quality Engineer that I am considering. They gave me until February 2011 to decide. the offer is for 400,000 RMB annually, that is about $58,000 USD. That alone is enouhg to make me decide to take the offer. that kind of income will go a long way in China, compared to in the USA.

I decided to search online and found several job postings for QE and QA Manager working for USA companies or Chinese companies that have 80% or more of the business with overseas customers.

As for Technical Writer, it is not for products manufactured for use in China or any of its space and defense industries, it is for products manufactured for the overseas customers. The customers I work with in China only hire and assign foreigner employees to projects and product lines for overseas customers.

Snyder

Snyder

If I was an Entrepeneur in the West importing goods from China or any other country??...Would I then employ someone in THAT country to sell my goods??...NO!!....I would take delivery!!Together with the Specs and then translate it via an Interpreter employed by me....sitting in the same office...and if need be have the documents doublechecked by an Outsourcing Company...of MY choosing

Bottom line...I wouldn't sell my soul to make a Company boss happier with increasing Bank account

Dieselrat,

That was my point in my explanation of hiring practices by foreign and Chinese companies.

That is why the job postings require English language fluency. Although, some foreign companies do hire locals to keep the cost of salaries down, but do require English fluency.

There is nothing wrong with hiring a local, as long as they receive proper and effective training and are given technical support, as well as periodic oversight and evaluation of job performance.

However, I will say this. There are a lot of foreign companies that have reduced the cost of quality to keep operating costs low and profit margins high, and do not visit on a regualr basis to see how things are going. It is these companies that have the highest customer complaints, which cause many western consumers to remark, "nothing good comes from China". Soon, that will change. New laws are being put in place to require foreign companies to take full accountability for product returns and customer complaints, not the factory that was contracted to do the work. They only follow specifications given to them. Most of the specifications for the same products that previously were manufactured in the western countries have been revised to change the criteria of features that were considered critical in product quality. All this to reduce costs and increase profit margins. I know this first-hand because I am consulting with USA companies to put back quality and increase their oversight and training of personnel, and quit blaming the factory and start taking full accountability.

Snyder

Hi Snyder,

Yes, I did consider that and talked with Hu Yue about how far that salary would go in China. It would certainly equate to a comfortable living. From my standpoint though, I was looking at it compared to what I'd make in America and how that would translate into our own cost of living. It's almost a lateral transfer in terms of income.

Interesting though, most of the positions don't state salary and leave it open for negotiation. I'm only commenting on the few that did list salary.

And, of course, only time will tell. Right now I'm not ready to make a move to China, but that's not to say in years to come I wouldn't. It's an option that's always open for discussion in our home.

Thanks for the numbers,

-Paul

Paul, not a problem. You're welcome.

I already made up my mind to move to China long before Shu and I got married. Being married now gives me the drive and energy to start the process now to move by July 2011 or sooner. I've been thinking about the offer one of my customers made in accepting the position. $58,000 annual salary is extremely good for Suzhou. Minimum income for that area is $35,000 for a professional.

Snyder

docmyster wrote:I go every 4 weeks to China and see and hear a lot more than the media tells us.

. . .

As for speaking Mandarin. I get buy on my own and when Shu, friends or others are with me they translate. I learned from Shu, friends and my customers to use 2 to 3 word phrases to ask for something or answer a question in order to establish some kind of dialogue. Well, it works. And when I do not understand, my favorite phrase is, "Wo budong". Which means, "I do not understand". I usually get one or two English words or hand gestures, and from there we work it out and understand each other. I don't find it frustrating. I find it fun, interesting, challenging and stories to share with family and friends on my return to the USA.

. . .


Snyder

Hi Doc. Can you or someone else explain the difference between "bu dong" and "bu ming bai"?

I usually say "bu ming bai" when I don't understand, but someone else might say "ta bu dong" when it's obvious that I don't.

My dictionary says understand, know for "dong" - e.g., "dong yingwu" is "know English". It says understand, realize, know for mingbai

Randy,

Bu dong, means "do not understand". The proper way to say it is, "Wo bu dong", which means "I do not understand". "Ta bu dong", means "They not understand", or "He not understand", or "She not understand." "Ta" actually has one meaning, "They", but the dictionary will tell you "They", "He" and "She". The word "dong" means, as you said, "understand", "know". "Bu" means "Not" or "No", but actually it's simply "Not". So when you say, "Wo bu dong", you are actually saying, "I not understand" or, "I not know", because there is no proper grammar in Chinese, though language schools are attempting to teach proper grammar, but it seems to create more communication problems when speaking with locals.

To say "Bu ming bai" is incorrect, even though it suppose to be the same as "Bu dong". But, when you say "Bu ming bai", you are saying, "I have no knowledge or understanding". For instance, if you say "I know Chinese", you would say, "Wo ming bai zhongwen" or "Wo zhidao zhongwen", which means, "I speak Chinese". So, if you are trying to tell someone you know English or Chinese or any other language, then the correct way is "Wo zhidao zhongwen, or yingwen, or fangwen (French), etc." Yingwu is incorrect, actually it is "Yinguo" for England. English as in British, is "Yinguo ren", meaning "England people" or "English" or "British" people.

Then again, I could be all wrong because each region in China says it differently.

Snyder

One of the things I have learned from my Lao Po who speaks 5 dialects is that it is very fluid this language process. People usually use "dong'' in an informal setting and "ming bai" otherwise. But can be interchangeable.

Sometimes the more I learn about the language and the more I can say, it seems the less I understand and the more confusing it becomes.

Clif

Admin wrote:One of the things I have learned from my Lao Po who speaks 5 dialects is that it is very fluid this language process. People usually use "dong'' in an informal setting and "ming bai" otherwise. But can be interchangeable.

Sometimes the more I learn about the language and the more I can say, it seems the less I understand and the more confusing it becomes.

Clif

You got that right! My wife and I always use "ming bai" with each other, but that may (or may not) be because I learned that first.

I also learned ming bai first. The around the house in Nanning, it was dong bu dong and I would look like the village idiot, (which is easy and perhaps true) and say dui bu qi wo bu ming bai and the laughter would drown out the traffic noise. Amid the gales of laughter "mean same mean same"... Now that was confusing...

Later it was explained to my 3 year old head that they meant the same thing.

Doh, or as they would say there... WAAAAAA

Clif

On my first trip I used wo bu zhidao extensively. And I was not lying. My friend eventually replied with I don't understand. I think he would do it to make me feel comfortable but I don't think he was lying neither. There would always be lots of chuckles when we started to say Wo bu zhidao and I don't understands.

Now days I usually hear wo bu dong in a class room setting. The teacher after explaining something will ask dong bu dong? (Perhaps used to convey the meaning when one says" make sense?") We use the words ming bai ma most often when after explaining something that is said that was a bit confusing. It is use when after an attempt to clarify a point. Trying to ask if something is clear or that it has been clarifed. I now see the word bai in ming bai ma to suggest white or clear. Perhaps that is is a bad suggestion.

The other day my Lao Po told me that she was going to visit North Sea City for the holiday. This was as we were chatting on line. So I first I googled it. I tried to find where it was. I couln't find it so I asked her if it was up north near North Korea. She said No. I asked where it was. She said it was about 3 hours away from Nanning and that it was in Guangxi province. She said that we had visited city a few years ago. She then said Behai City. She then asked Ming Bai Ma? I rolled my eyes and said yes. Why didn't she say Behai City in the first place and not Norh Sea City? I guess my answer to that question would be Bu Zhidao.

Danny

One day maybe I will figure it all out. Not likely tho!!

Danny,

Your Lao po did tell you correctly. It is not Behai, it's "BeiHai". Bei is north, Hai is sea. BeiHai, North Sea City.

It is interesting how others use the language. When Shu and I talk, if she wants to know if I understood what she had said to me, she says, "Ni dong", meaning "You understand". I reply, "shide" for yes, or "Wo dong", if I understand.

Shu is from Liaoning province, which is NE China, borders North Korea. That region, the people their are descendents of Manchu and Han, and are referred to as Dong Bei, or DongBei. Their dialect is very different than those in Nanning, even Shanghai and Suzhou.

Snyder

What city in Liaoning is your lao po from Snyder? My wife was born in Donggang but lived in Dandong.
How interesting to learn that.

Eric,

My wife is from Yongling town, Jiahe village. I am not sure where Donggang and Dandong are, but her town was not far from north Korea border. If yiu look it up in the map, itlooks like maybe 2 hours from the border or less.

Snyder

If it's where I'm thinking, it's due east of Shenyang. Dandong is south of there. Takes 2 hours or so by car. It's the city on the China side of the two bridges that separate North Korea from China.
We blew up on of the bridges during the Korean war.
My wife and I had an apartment that was a 10 minute walk from the bridges.

that bridge was rebuilt by China.

Dandong is actually at the China-North Korea border. You're talking about the bridge over the Yalu River. Yongling is east of Fushun and WNW of Dandong.

Snyder